As a new artist in Nashville, TN and student of God’s Word, you run into many Christians and non-Christians who have their own understanding on what scriptures are actually in the Bible. It’s unbelievable how many people who say they read the Bible, and have no idea what scripture says or that certain scriptures even exist. Two of the most common scripture myths I hear alot that people will say the Bible doesn’t talk about, or isn’t clear about is homosexuality and alcoholism. Let’s begin…
Alcohol
Let’s address drinking first. Without the Bible, we can see how alcohol can destroy lives. Am I saying that all people who have a glass of wine are evil and destroying their life? Of course not, be smart. So what DOES the Bible say about drinking alcohol? First, is alcohol bad? Let’s ask this differently- is alcohol good? Is there any good in alcohol spiritually? Paul addresses this very well (for those of you that don’t know Paul, he wrote most of the New Testament and is one of the reasons we have Christianity still today).
1 Corinthians 10:23
All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable All things are lawful, but not all things edify.
What does this mean? It means that just because it is not illegal or bad to do something, it doesn’t make it profitable to your life or lift you up spiritually. So second, it might be okay to have a glass of wine for dinner, but is it wrong to get drunk? Yes.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor DRUNKARDS nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
What is a drunkard? A person who drinks alcohol to excess habitually; a chronic drinker; a person who drinks to get drunk.Yes it is a sin to your body, and to God.
Here we see God saying it is not wise to look at an alcoholic drink…
Proverbs 23:31-33
Do not gaze at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup, when it goes down smoothly! 32 In the end it bites like a snake and poisons like a viper. 33 Your eyes will see strange sights, and your mind will imagine confusing things.
The whole chapter 23 of Proverbs addresses how sinful and unwise being drunk is. Here is a link showing 75 scriptures on the warning of being drunk. http://www.scionofzion.com/drinking.htm
1 Corinthians 5:11
11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.
We can clearly see that being drunk, or being a “drunkard” is sinful. So is just drinking a sin? Let’s go back to what Paul says- just because it is lawful doesn’t make it profitable. Having a drink is much different than drinking habitually. But it is obvious that drinking can lead many people down a road of sin. Not only is being drunk a sin, but scripture strictly points out that it leads to immorality. So lets talk about sexual immorality now.
Homosexuality
Is homosexuality a sin? And is it addressed in the Bible? Yes, and yes.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
This is the same verse as above. But it also addresses many sins. That’s all I need folks. I don’t need every verse in the Bible to tell me that homosexuality is a sin. It’s not confusing to me, the Bible talks about it straight forward.
Leviticus 20:13
If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
Romans 1:26-27
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
We need to know these facts as Christians. Not to bash, but to love and show people what sin is so that we may be able to enlighten a sinner and bring them to Christ. I’ve seen it too many times on TV where a pastor or Christian will try to stand up for what is right and have no scriptural foundation in which to speak.
Many people will say that there are so many Christians falling on the media these days for homosexuality and other immoral sin. It seems that, in the media, that the Christian church is falling apart because so many Christian leaders are falling from their integrity and faith. But that’s not the case. Yes, Christian leaders fall, but Christian leaders have always fallen since the birth of Christ. It’s not that the Christian church is falling apart- the Christian church is rising and getting stronger because God is revealing sin in the lives of sinners in leadership.
Thessalonians 2:7-12
7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
When God reveals the sin, then the sinner will usually repent and ask God for forgiveness, or try to convince the world that their sin is justified.
So why do you hear reporters on the news and talk shows say that these issues are not addressed in the Bible? Simple, people who watch these reporters and celebrities either believe everything they say or believe what they want to hear. Any reporter that will tell you that homosexuality isn’t addressed in the Bible knows that most of their viewers are not Christian, and most of those who are Christian don’t read the Word of God. It is written. Read it.
One mistake that the media makes on PURPOSE and that we make as Christians is that we focus on homosexuality as THE sexual sin. All immoral conduct is a sin, not just homosexuality.
My Family
Let me also point out that I am passionate about these two sins myself because there have been many strong Christian leaders in my personal extended family tree that have had affairs with members of their church, come out as homosexual, struggle with alcoholism, and even incest. These sins are real and effect everyone. The product of all sin is death and destruction. We as Christians should wake up a little and see all the people around us dying in sin. We get so caught up in pointing fingers at sinners and gossiping about their sinful ways, but where is our true love for these people? WWJD?
Dude, that is awesome! I don’t know if anyone else has left you a comment, but thanks for what you wrote. I am a youth minister who is constantly trying to point out those two things, wiith much the same emphasis that you have used. And you are correct in saying that the media purposefully focuses on the worng parts of it. Thanks for the refreshing view. Have an awesome day!
Yeah, when it comes to explaining these two types of sinful acts to others, you really need to be grounded in why its wrong in scripture. Thanks for reading!
I find it interesting that Jesus never spoke about homosexuality. Why? Instead only his disciples and others who came after him speak of it. These were just mere men, who themselves were given unto sin, and when it came down to it (admitting they knew Jesus) they denied him, and saved themselves. Jesus hung out with prostitutes, let them touch him, wash him. etc. Unfortunately the Christians of today,(not all) seem to just follow what ever scriptures that fit their lifestyles and ignore the ones that condemn them. Which just really opens them and Christianity up to critizism. I think most people see the Christian church for what it is, a scam! The Catholic church is a scam and most (not all) evangelical churches (most are run like corporations) exploit weak minded people. God will be the true judge, if he/she/it exists not men.
For a quick and short response:
1. Jesus did speak on homosexuality. He clearly spoke about Sodomy in Luke. Here, Jesus may not have said the word homosexual. But Jesus is a smart man, many times seen he likes to address many sins at once. A good example of this is the ten commandments. Jesus sums up all ten commandments with two. One is, “Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.” -Dt. 6:4 This sums up the first four commandments which all have to do with loving God, no idols, remembering the sabbath day, and not cursing God. The second commandment of Jesus, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” This sums up the last six commandments. To love your neighbor you can’t murderer your neighbor, steal from your neighbor, lie to your neighbor, envy them, and you must love your mother and father as they are your neighbor too. So we find that Jesus speaks against the sin of Sodom from the Old Testament which he does a lot. The story of Sodom (and Gamorrah) is clearly marked in the Old Testament as ALL sexual and immoral sin which includes adultery, forincation, homosexuality, etc. At the time, the Jews had already addressed homosexuality as an immoral sexual sin so Jesus only had to refer to immoral sexual sin as a whole. There was no need for Jesus to single out homosexuality among the immoral sins, even though he did in these passages. The Jews, disciples, and He, DID NOT separate the types of sexual sins, or any sin- it was all viewed as sin, period. The whole foundation of Christianity from Jesus is sexual purity and marriage. Jesus gives us example after example of our bodies being the church of Jesus which is his bride. Too find more about Jesus and homosexuality, you’re going to have to do mor than just Google it, because the media saying that Jesus doesn’t speak on homosexuality outweighs the search results. And this is simply because of the spotlight of the topic right now. These people in media who say this are not students of scripture. Therefore, they do not know scripture and how to understand scripture… most people don’t. Over and over and over again Jesus clearly tells people to follow the Word of God, the whole Word of God… which back then was the Jewish scriptures of the Old Testament.
2. The disciples were just men, yes. But they were apostolic men, not just followers of Christ and not just admitting they knew Jesus. The word “apostolic” is significant here because all of the gospels, as well as the entire New Testament, in the Bible are apostolic gospels. Apostolic, in short, means directly connected to Christ himself, like Paul. Paul is mostly the reason Christianity stayed alive. When the books of the New Testament were put together, many gospels were left out. There were many gospels at the time that could not be directly trased apostolically to Christ. The early Christian church took this very seriously. You have to understand that these Christians dedicated their lives in persecution to preserving the apostolic scriptures as TRUTH. I’m sorry that I cannot give an entire history lesson on the early Christian church and how the apostles were directly connected to Christ because of the extent, but I assure you if you do the research (or just alittle bit of Googling) that you’ll see I am stating fact. So yes, the apostles all had sin in their lives at some point (as do we), but they are the reason we even have a Bible today, especially Paul.
3. I agree with you. Many Christians today only know scriptures that they want to know that fit their lifestyles. This is a problem and has always been a problem, but it’s not a growing problem. The Christian church and Pentecostal church is growing every year. Does this mean that every Christian is becoming better and better at scripture, NO. But it does show a global increase of faith in Christ.
4. There are many Christian churches out there that are scaming people for money, even people (so called ministers) in my own family… but the real and true Chrstian churches who are making postive impacts in the community outweigh the scamers. Sin is always revealed and God will always continue to destory false churches and prophets. You must believe in God’s Holy Spirit and supernatural power to believe that though.
5. Back to homosexuality and the Word. If you believe Christianity and understand the Word (Bible) and what the Word is, WHO he is – - – - John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” God the father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit are all ONE God. So in understanding of this philosophical statement- Jesus is the Word himself. Jesus is God, and Jesus is the Word. Jesus is the Word made flesh, yes a walking Word of God. So EVERYTHING in the Bible is a teaching of Jesus. This is the supernatural power of Christianity; a power that is easily forgotton; a power that is real; and a power that you must believe in as a Christian. So as Jesus is the living written Word of God- everywhere in the Bible that speaks against sexual immorality (homosexuality), or any sin is coming from Jesus himself. Because Jesus is the Word, Jesus is God, and God and His Holy Spirit is the supernatural inspiration of why the Bible was written. God moved through men, women, and history itself to create His written Word. This isn’t some crazy Christian superstition, this is the whole principle of who Jesus was, is, and will be- the Word. So in saying that, its a biblical and philosophical contradiction to say that Jesus was a man who never spoke about homosexuality, or didn’t speak about other sins…. like beating your wife, or shooting herion. Jesus wasn’t just some teacher in the New Testament who walked the earth for 30 years. He is God. He is the Word and he WROTE the Word. He is the ENTIRE Word, so everything written against sexual immorality and homosexuality is from Jesus Himself.
6. God does exist. I assure you. Hard to believe sometimes, but He’s there. And since this is an entirely different discussion… I encourage you to read an amazing book that I read a year ago. It’s called “There is a God”, by Antony Flew. Antony Flew is a brillant philosopher. In fact, for 50 years he was the world’s leading philosopher in proving that God DOES NOT EXIST. But through science, many years of research, and other factors, he changed his mind and declared that there IS A GOD. He grew up in a Christian home and his dad was a prominent Methodist minister overseas, yet Flew became atheist… then later changed his mind. This is cool because in the book he states that he is not made a decision to be Christian, yet… but declares philosophically (without the Bible or Christianity) that there MUST BE A GOD.
7. I think many people do not believe in Christianity simply because they chose not to believe in supernatural power. Christianity is more than a religion, and written words in a book. I am a man of science and that science only strengthens my theology. I have personally felt, witnessed, and live in the supernatural power of God. A real power that I will never apoligize or be embarrassed to believe in. I have personally been healed among many other miracles that I have witnessed. And the reason these things don’t happen to everyone is simply because those people run from God, don’t believe in Him, or don’t care. Because I promise the ones to seek God with their WHOLE life find him. He’s real, and it’s really cool if you ask me. The encoder of DNA and the mastermind of the Big Bang is someone I personally know.
I love you bro. Thanks for reading my post and commenting on it… it means a lot to me. It opens up for a lot of conversation that we both can think about, learn about, and others can read about. Take care. I would love for you to read other stuff I post in the future. And I’m sorry for any typos that I may have made writing this.
by the way your a good guitar teacher, excellent player, and a good person.
Wow Aaron! That was very well put, thanks for sharing.
Hi Aaron,
I was wondering if you think God’s laws for homosexuality should be removed (or at least relaxed) given that the world is ever changing and new forms of relationships are being explored more openly. I am from the catholic faith and I know my church’s stand on the issue. What I don’t understand is why some laws (ironically also written by Leviticus) are now accepted as OK. I am referring to the passage about not eating shellfish because it would be an abomination for you to do so.
I’m not picking a fight here, just wanted to hear your thoughts on this. BTW, thanks for the really cool guitar tutorials, that’s actually how I landed here on this thread.
I’m not here to bash or disrespect anybody but why people still believe in the Bible in this day and age absolutely astounds me. There are so many holes in the Bible it’s almost laughable.
1. Did you know that any man who’s penis or testicles are damaged will not be allowed into heaven? – Deuteronomy 23:1
So some poor guy who winds up with testicular cancer and has to have a testicle removed is not welcome in heaven? That doesn’t sound particularly holy to me.
2. Anybody who works on a Sunday should be ‘put to death’ – Exodus 35:2
That’s 99% of the western world taken care of then.
I could go on and on. Please somebody tell me, why you still believe in this stuff, when it’s so obviously ridiculous!
tom, it is so easy for anyone to trash the Bible. i can trash the bible much better than you can, because i know a lot more scripture that i dont have to look up on Google to trash it. you and ANYONE can trash any religion, physics theories, sociology, psychology, philosophy, and many other academic subjects and topics. From your statement, you are also probably one to anger quick and won’t even read my whole reply even though i encourage you to do so. you probably find its hard for people to have a discussion with you or take you serious. it usually is when people with little to no understanding of what they are addressing try to make statement against something. my friend, the reason you find holes in the Bible, and the reason you find it so easy to rip on the Bible, is because you clearly have no understand of scripture at all. Understanding scripture is much more than finding a few verses to rip on. The Bible consists of ancient Hebrew law that was reformed at the teachings of Jesus, songs, poetry, parables which are made up stories, commandments, genealogy, and so much more. Before you think you have any ground at all to rip on scripture, try learning about what you are ripping on. Learn what the context of the scripture is being written. Learn who actually WROTE the verses or book you are reading. Find the time period in which it was written. Try learning some of the original Greek and Hebrew words to better understand the translation. This is the same thing as someone to knows little of physics telling someone who obviously knows alot about physics that parallel universes, time travel, black holes, antimatter, dark matter, M-theory is all a bunch of crap and is totally science fiction. Who are they to make a statement at all without first looking at the facts and learning how to understand the theories of physics, because now we have evidence that all of that could now be science fact. The statement you made is just like the uneducated statements made by people in the media, talk shows, larry king live, lame news reporters and others who know nothing about the bible except what they can find on Google (and probably dont even own a Bible ), who just don’t know what they are talking about. If its not your area of study, i would be careful about making strong statements because you’ll end up looking like an idiot in front of a lot of people. If you would like to have a REAL academic discussion about these topics, i would be glad to sit down with you and explain how you have completely misunderstood the context of scripture which you are quoting. It’s really easy actually, and I’m never scared to have a calm and educated discussion to help people understand something they do not. While i do not claim to have all the answers to very topic in the Bible, I do have the intelligence and resources to find an answer. Here are more subjects in scripture that probably sound just as ridiculous to the unedcated as the scriptures you wrote:
1). In Genesis, it says that the earth was created before the Sun, and in 7 days. crazy right?
2). In the old testement it says “eye or and eye”, in the new testement it says to turn the other cheek. contradicting right?
3). Many people will claim that the Bible says nothing about drinking, smoking, drugs, homosexuality, and cussing. Wrong.
4). Old Hebrew laws says that its a sin to eat any shellfish. So everyone who eats lobster and other shellfish are going to hell right?
5). In Revelation it talks about 7 headed dragons, big locus with heads of humans, an Antichrist who will takeover the world and crazying sounding epic stuff. Stupid right?
6). Did you know that Jesus’s mother Mary was probably 14 when she married Joseph who was about 30. Weird right?
7). Did you know that it took Noah over 100 years to build the ark? People only live to about 80 years old right?
8). Did you know that the Bible says that Jesus died and rose again 3 days later? and he also rose people from the dead? Well thats the craziest thing to believe in the Bible to me. If that’s true, I don’t really care about a man’s damaged penis. Pretty crazy huh.
Did you know that if you don’t understand scripture, the history, the language, the culture, the religion, the God, the Word, the context… that all of it sounds pretty crazy?
Hi Aaron,
Wow, I wasn’t actually expecting a reply. Nice work!
Okay, I have to admit I do find your tone a little condescending but then again I guess I was too in my original post.
Firstly, you’re right, I do have very little understanding of scripture and again you’re right I did need to use Google to find those two points I brought up. Here’s my but…
BUT…Your response just basically said “There’s a ton of weird stuff that doesn’t make any sense in the Bible but you don’t know anything about scripture, so who are you to dismiss it?” Right?
Now, my thoughts are, in order to believe in the Bible, you essentially have to ignore logic and all the laws of physics and science, that some of the worlds finest minds have discovered. As a rational human being, I just can’t accept that.
When you consider the times in which all this scripture was created, mankind had very little grasp of science. For example, if someone like David Blaine wandered around performing his street ‘magic’ in those days, he’d have been burned as a warlock. Simply because they wouldn’t have understood that his magic wasn’t some supernatural power but simple, explainable illusions. It’s these kinds of people who wrote the Bible, people who, by the standards of today are extremely primative. Someone who might have witnessed a perfectly explainable act and passed it off as magic or an act of God in those days.
How am I supposed to put my faith in that?
Lastly, if I were to study the original scriptures and understand the original contexts and translations that still doesn’t make me feel any better about that line in Deuteronomy. One of my good friends had testicular cancer (thankfully all clear today). He’s genuinely one of the nicest, most thoughtful people I’ve ever met…and he’s not allowed into heaven because of his illness? I don’t know what level of ‘understanding’ I’m supposed to have in order to find enlightenment from that, or any of the other hundred Bible quotes I could bring up.
To finish, you’re right, I do have very little understanding and knowledge of these scriptures, so please enlighten me. Explain how homosexuality is a sin, when millions of people around the world are born gay. Surely they are God’s creation themselves?
If Noah took 100 years to build the ark, do you honestly believe that he lived to be well into his hundreds or do you deem that some kind of mistranslation or inaccuracy?
Tom, great reply. I appreciate people like you who enjoy thinking about these matters. I’ll give you a few short answers and then we can continue this again later. perhaps through personal email, or skype? 1). No you do not have to ignore laws of logic and physics to believe in the Bible. I am a man of scripture and theology, but also a man of physics. I love science. As you begin to understand Christianity and scripture, you’ll see how scripture was put together by many great philosophers and other great minds like you are talking about. The more you understand, the more logical it seems. I have not found yet how Christianity and science are separate. In my personal studies of the latest physics and theology, science only edifies scripture to me. It also helps me to better grasp in my mind some of the more difficult topics in scripture like the realm of heaven, our “soul” and where it is, the mind, space and time, how God can transcend time, how (to me) there must be more life in the universe besides earth. 2). There are actually accounts of magicians like David Blane in the Bible who tried to disprove the miracles of Moses, Jesus, and others and failed.. but you are right… magicians can make faith confusing. 3). About Deuteronomy, dont worry about it for now. It doesnt mean your friend is necessarily going to hell because of his problem. the old testament Hebrew laws are a bit harsh and confusing…. they only need to be understood in the context of Christianity as a whole, and the Bible as a whole… not as Jewish law. Sometimes it helps to begin reading the New Testament to understand the teaching of Christianity, then go back and read the Old Testament to see where the history of Christianity began. Think of the Old Testament as a high school history book. There are many bad things in the history book like teachings of Hitler, assassinations of presidents and civil rights leaders, wars, poverty, and much more. We learn about history to see how it defines our lives now, even those some of the teaching in history may have not been correct. And remember, all the laws and teachings in the Old Testament are just that… laws and teachings of the Hebrews. It doesn’t always mean it came from God, or it’s what Christians believe today. In the New Testament it says that “The law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.” You see, many of the early Christians in the 1st century also had these same questions you are asking about the old testament Jewish laws. 3). Noah, homosexuality, and other topics are smaller ones. The first thing we need to understand is scripture and Christianity as a whole. The foundations. Then once you understand that, you can look at specific issues in the Bible to have a more direct understanding. Here’s something to think about though… in science, and the history of our planet… do you think that humans have always only been able to live for an average of 80 years? The answer is no… so would it be possible that humans in the era of Noah could have lived for 200, 300 years? or more? In the days of Mozart, the average living age was about 35 because of disease. These are all things you must take in consideration when learning about the history of the Bible. Thanks Tom. We can talk a bit later. PS… there is a really cool book by a philosopher named Antony Flew called “There Is A God”. He is only a philosopher, not a Christian. But he gives his reasons why there must be a God in philosophy and science. He goes on to state how the Christian God must then be the correct God if there is ever to be a claim for a God, although he has not made up his mind if he wants to be a Christian yet. He is probably now in his late 70s. He has spent his whole life as an atheist (one of the Worlds smartest, notorious atheist as well), proving why there is not a God. But just recently he has recanted everything he said because he has new evidence of a God.
oh and Tom… I forgot to mention. In case you are not familiar with the Old and New Testaments…. Deuteronomy is part of the Old Testament- the old Hebrew law. The Bible is divided in to two parts.. the Old Testaments and the New Testament. Christianity is mostly based on the teaching of the New Testament. This is because the New Testament begins with the birth and teachings of Jesus Christ (the one to came to bring grace and TRUTH). The Old Testament and New Testament would seem like two different religions to someone to doesnt understand scripture. This is because the Old Testament is basically the Jewish religion, and the New Testament is Christianity. Christianity was founded through the old law books of the Old Testament, along with other stories, genealogy, miracles, prophecies, and other scripture in the Old Testament that is an important foundation to Christianity. This is probably one reason you find many scriptures in the Old Testament books like Deuteronomy that may seem to contradict Christianity, or confuse Christianity.
Okay, so we’ve established that the Old testament is considered pretty much outdated and irrelevant by today’s Christians. I’m a little confused about your statement
about the possibility of people living to 200 or 300 years old, though. In what way could that be possible? Like you point out, things such as disease are definitely
factors throughout the generations. You could even argue that the quality (or lack) of the modern day diet could contribute to younger/older deaths in modern times.
I’ve just Googled ‘The Oldest Man Who Ever Lived’ and found a wiki answers page which tells me that the oldest man who ever lived was Noah, who lived to be 950 years
old. Though the bible also records that Methuselah lived to be 969 years old. Why is it these incredible (and in my mind pretty ridiculous) statements come from the
Bible? People simply don’t live that long! How do we have any PROOF that Noah lived to be that old? I guess that’s my main argument…how do we KNOW that the stuff
these people wrote in the Bible is actually true? If I didn’t know any better, I could pick up a copy of The Lord of the Rings and think it was fact. How do we know
that these ‘great minds’ and ‘philosophers’ you speak of, didn’t just make this stuff up? Facts are verifiable, backed up by evidence. If you could present a single
piece of solid evidence that any one of these fantastical events in the Bible actually happened, I’ll be a changed man. I can’t simply believe, just because it’s
written in the Bible. You know how Chinese Whispers works. Noah begins as a normal man, then as the stories are passed between person to person, through the
generations he becomes more and more fantastical, so much so, that eventually he’s this incredible, physically impossible creation that lived to be 950. Jesus body
disappears after 3 days…either he was never there in the first place, or somebody stole his body. Again, these stories get passed around and all of a sudden rumours
of him rising from the dead start appearing. Before long it’s written down as fact. Do you even accept the possibility of this?
I truly believe that Christians (or any religious person) wants to believe this stuff so badly, they’ll delude themselves by ignoring facts and instead essentially
believing in magic. When you’re a kid you get told Santa Claus brings you gifts on Christmas Day, so in your naivety you ‘know,’ you truly ‘believe’ that Santa brings
you presents each year. Then…you grow up and realise these fairy tales don’t really exist. Reindeer don’t fly, there isn’t some guy who lives at the North Pole
making toys all year round. People don’t live to be 950, people don’t rise from the dead, there is no God, who patiently listens to everyone’s prayers and then chooses
whether or not to answer them. ‘God’ is Santa Claus for adults.
In the end, I doubt either of us can ‘win’ this debate, simply because you can’t prove to me that there is a God and I can’t prove to you that there isn’t. Your
comment about Science & Faith being separate, is kinda true. No matter what scientific discovery gets made, you could always say that God created it. I’m fairly sure
that if science discovered with 100% accuracy that there is no God, you’d be able to say that this discovery was put there by God to test your faith.
The thing is Aaron, you believe in Christianity because of where you live and the family you were born into. If you’d have been born in India, you’d be Hindu, if you
were born in Italy you’d be Catholic, if you were born in Saudi Arabia, you’d be Muslim. You’d also have that same unshakeable belief you have now, it would just be a
completely different set of beliefs.
Without insulting you, you’ve essentially been brainwashed by your family, friends and peers. From birth, you’re bombarded with these
stories and have these beliefs pushed on you, that by the time you’re old enough to think for yourself, it’s so ingrained, that you almost believe by default. Again, I don’t expect you to turn around and say “Wow, Tom, you’re right…I’m gonna stop believing.” We both know that’s not gonna happen.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on why you believe people aren’t born homosexual, by the way.
1). I never said the old testament is not important to Christianity. It establishes the entire history of Christianity. Everything started with Abraham in the early Old Testament. His son Issac basically founded Judaism (later formed into Christianity) and his other son basically founded Islam.
2). I NEVER believed in Santa Claus, and thought that the kids at school were stupid for doing so.
3). So you think that because I was born into a Christian home that I’ve been brainwashed. Do i honestly sound like someone who could be brainwashed? Do i think like a person who is brainwashed? Most brainwashed people have very feeble minds. I know what I know today because I’ve always asked questions, challenged my own faith (which most people will not), doubted my faith, I love to learn, I love to think, and I love to think on my own. I am thankful that I have been put into a Christian society because of all the joy, peace, guidance, and brotherly support i have when I need it, but it does not define my thoughts, or my faith.
4). Before you make Christians out to be mindless philosophers, fairy tales, stories that most people in the world don’t believe, the santa claus for adults… did you know that only 2% of the worlds population believe that there isnt a God. That means that 98% of the entire planet believe in some type of supernatural force. Did you know that Christianity is the largest conversion religion AND the leading religion in the world? It must have some “mystery” about it that convert masses of people. That means that 2 Billion people in the world claim to be Christians. What’s crazy to me is how people on your side of the argument, the media and such, try to make Christianity out to be this little weak group of people in the society that is quickly dwindling down to nothing because it’s a load of crap.. when in fact, its just the opposite. Atheist and non-believers are the minority in the world, not Christians. The reason people convert to Christianity is because of the miracles they witness (yes miracles) or because of the life changing joy and peace they find in a real, true God. It’s not some lame intuition in your mind, or goosebumps you get because you hear nice things… it’s a spiritual feeling that stays with you that is completely indescribable, and there are many people missing out on it because they think they are too logical and do not give it a chance at all. d
5). Yes, claims in science will say that people could have lived much longer thousands of years ago because of atmospheric conditions, no pollution, not many virus or diseases, as well as other geological and medical reasons.
6). The Bible is not a piece of literature that cannot be verified. False. Fairy tale. Made up. All these are completely false accusations against the Bible. The Bible is one of the greatest pieces of literature in our human history. Most historians and theologians have studied the history of the Bible as fact more than any other piece of literature, ever. Some of the greatest minds in history and literature today will tell you how much of the Bible we can prove- many of these people arent even Christians. We have discovered pieces of the ark of Noah. We have traced our entire human race down to 3 distinct families ( there were three families on the ark with Noah ). Jewish people believe that Jesus’s body was stolen, that’s why there are still Jews today. But there were over 600 witnesses, maybe more who witnessed Jesus die, and rise again. The virgin birth of a God as a man, Jesus, was so significant in history that even the Koran in Islam states that Jesus was born from a virgin named Mary as the Bible on this.
7). You’ve also got to realized the type of people, monks, to preserved the life of literature in history. These monks and historians knew that these few writing were the only evidence that this stuff happened and they devoted their entire lives to keeping this literature safe and copying it word for word. Religion and history is all these people had back then. These werent just stories told as tales around a camp fire and written down thousands of years later… they were stories written as they happened for the most part and preserved with the utmost protection and care… that’s why we still have these writings.
8). You can’t make accusations against me about my life, my past, my future, my beliefs without knowing who i am, and what knowledge i do have in my mind. The thing is, that these discussions are all philosophical. One rule of philosophy is that there must be an outcome. One side must out way the other side. It has too, because two opposites cannot be the same. All philosophy is a mathematical equations (like the Ontological argument for God… look it up )… there has to be a logical outcome. So yes, one of us can win this discussion, in time.. and I welcome the challenge
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9). No… with every scientific achievement… i don’t say.. “that’s just God testing my faith”… i look at the facts and come to a conclusion after i have put together every possible solution that I can personally think of… then i come up with my solution that MUST out way every other solution. God is the creator yes. But i dont believe that God just said hey, earth be created… ok now i’ll create the sun, now i’ll put two humans on the planet and they will populate the entire planet without any evolution from Darwin, and do it all in 8000 years. You see… I see a way that God, the big bang, time and space, some of Darwin’s ideas, evolution, millions and millions of years, and life as we know it with science and God to all fit in one pot of soup and be completely correct and balance. In the last few years i’ve had the opportunity to get deep into physics and theology and i havent found much of a reason yet why it all cant fit together. But im talking about deep science. much more that just mere creation and God being the supreme being of the universe. I’m talking about M-theory, the fabric of time itself, many many many universes, life in many more places than just earth and so on. But this is a completely different discussion really. But just so you know… i have studied anthropology as well, Darwins works, world religions, and other atheistic teachings along with my theist studies… i just find that the argument for a God and the Christian God is PERFECT in philosophy. Many philosophers will agree with me that there are so many errors in equations with philosophical works in historical literature, but the Bible still to this day stands perfect in it’s “internal” religious claims.
10). there are a few reasons why Christianity is sooo controversial to the media and non-believers. Christ ask for us to be completely selfless and to serve others- to follow his commandments and guidelines for living. so the problem is that there are very selfish people who will not become servants and give their life to following Christ… which to me is easy.. it only leads to joy and peace… complete joy and peace. yes people have struggle and yes 3rd world countries suck… but that’s life. that life sucks with any religion… but our soul and heart retains the joy and peace of who we are in Christ and fellowship. Christianity is also the ONLY religion that claims to have a God come to earth and become a man in creation who was perfect, without error, and states the only way to heaven is through believing in this man Jesus. Muhammad was a great prophet in Islam, but had flaws, sins, and did not claim to be God. The whole principle of Buddhism is that no one is perfect, not even Buddah, and we must strive for enlightenment over and over and over until we achieve it- but even they do not believe in a God… only some type of enlighten state (heaven). Christianity is the only religion that gives the most forth right passage to a heaven, an easy passage to Jesus Christ, by a man who was fully man and fully God and completely perfect who died, rose again (witnessed by over 600 people that day), and is still real over 2000 years later to over 1/3 of the population of earth. No other religion can compete with the philosophy or salvation that Christianity offers. It is so logical to so many. I encourage you to study much more science. And even though you might not think its important… read the Bible starting with the New Testament just as a piece of historical literature and maybe get a commentary on it to help you understand it as history. If you read at least read the Bible, you can better understand why you either DONT believe it, or why people DO believe it. It will only help you either way. Later… looking forward to your response.
By the way, I’m gonna grab a copy of the book you recommended! Will let you know my thoughts.
awesome dude. I think you’ll enjoy it. everyone who i know that has read it, has really loved it. regardless of belief. and when we began to continue these discussions… lets try to narrow topics down to certain things instead of debating religion and God has a whole- you can only debate the big picture so far without beginning to debate the specific smaller topics that create the big topics. For example, if you wanted to know more about how the Bible says creation took place in 7 days, the earth created before the sun and so forth… i could explain to you what the creation story of the Bible really is and why science and Biblical creation can work together. Obviously the universe wasnt created in 7 days, if the God of the Bible wanted everything to be created.. he wouldnt have to take 7 days to do it… the same 7 days of our calendar, and the same 24 hours that make up each day. see where i’m going? obviously our calendar was not established at the beginning of time… soooo what is REALLY going on here? stuff like that we can be more direct with.
glad there is someone out there who stands up and tell the world that homosexuality is addressed in the bible.
mike says: aaron u r really great man . i like u r guitar playing style . bye